January 13, 2021 at 8:17 pm #2018
Alright so I’ve noticed the character system has been getting a lot of talk and “controversy” around it lately and I understand why completely. People deem it too hard or unreasonable to get a character and would like to see change, some of these said people have already gotten characters in the past (or currently have one).
I also believe it is too hard and not that great of a system. When Deathdusk responds to people saying that the system is unreasonably hard I see his response as being “nobody is good enough for a character” or something similar. The expectations are that people can land everything in their kit (even hard hitters) in fights against him. It seems as if he expects nearly perfect accuracy for everything or at least something along those lines. He would like to see fluent gameplay with minimal mistakes at all. This honestly isn’t horrible as being a character means a lot here, as so many people go for them… until they realize the success rate for a character is like 5% (im probably exaggerating that but you get it.) Getting a character on this server is so unreasonably hard that people just give up entirely or spend weeks at a time repeating the loops of failures just trying to receive a “fair” on their test and work their way up. This is nice in a commitment way but realistically not many people are this committed to going for a character that they’d go this far. The only people I’ve seen driven this far are Evo (who eventually got it) and Dylan (who has been working on it for over a month I believe.) There’s nothing wrong with wanting high expectations for characters but I believe they should be lowered.
From how I see it, and most likely other players, this system is a bit too strict. If this were a math test, it seems as if you expect a player to get a 99% to get a character. That’s fine in theory but the fact that there’s only been like 1 person other than Bummer and Akito to get a character in MONTHS is a bad thing. On a content standpoint it doesn’t even make characters seem worth it or all that fun. Not everyone is going to meet your overly high standards for a character. You’re an amazing player at the server of course, and expecting people to always compete at your level and knock you down with everything is also kind of a lot to ask. Even the pretty decent players like Zawadi would probably fail the character test, I assume with fairs (which I don’t think should be a failing score either.) I find it weird that a player like him (Zawadi) can be greatly better than most other players on the server, and still not be good enough for a character in the standards of your character system. I can understand why there’s a lot of hate in the character system and as a player who’s done it once, and sometimes wants a character I wish it were different. I’m not saying change the fact they fight you or get grades, but I think it’d be appreciated by most players if the grading was less strict, and more reasonable to the player base you have so that players like Zawadi and Dylan (sorry for name dropping y’all) can actually achieve characters instead of testing for weeks-months and not getting a character.
I don’t see it as “Everyone’s bad”, like you may, I see it more like people are getting good and trying (or at least decent) and the standards are way too high or just bad. I’d be willing to bet a lot of players would love it more if they had an actual chance at getting characters. I’ve seen players quit the server to play elsewhere over the character system being the way it is. I don’t like that it’s like “have a nice trip if you don’t like it bye bye”. I think that is just more grounds for you to re-evaluate it so that people don’t quit the server over it. You complained once or twice about not wanting to make more characters and character jutsu because people don’t get the characters. People would get the characters more with an easier (still need skill of course) char test that’s more reasonable to the player base. Listening to the players here is something that can only go good for the server. Cringe players who crutch and do scummy nonsense still wouldn’t get characters because there’d be standards for skill even with a more reasonable system.
Overall, I think the character system should be reworked and made to be something people can actually enjoy and achieve greatness from it. We don’t need to keep hearing people be upset over this system, it’s clearly a problem on the server. People want to have fun and be characters, not disappointed and feeling like utter trash. Please consider this, I’m sure players will also agree when they see this. Thank you for reading <3
January 13, 2021 at 8:23 pm #2019lucParticipant
- This topic was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by Deathdusk.
I think we should set prerequisites for dif. characters. I think you’re for the most part right, and as to maybe provide a solution, here’s a suggestion. Maybe set values for all the different ratings in categories, what I mean by this is that maybe have it so that, to pass a certain character you need to have at least 50% ‘excellents’50% ‘good’, but those would be for regular characters, as for an Uchiha char, maybe have it be all ‘excellents’. The point is, there should be more combinations of ratings in categories to get a character, and that the standard should be lower in comparison to the higher-skilled Uchiha chars. Sorry if this was a ramble, wasn’t well thought out, just wanted to jot this down as an idea.January 13, 2021 at 8:27 pm #2020
I think even that is too high, but I sort of like you’re idea. Maybe some fairs and a good or 2 would suffice more in my honest opinion. (Excellent is the highest and even Bummer only got about 1 or 2 of these). I don’t disagree with the different passable ratings but overall if they are more reasonable it’d be better than god players only for characters.January 13, 2021 at 8:31 pm #2021ericzebawsParticipant
Totally agree. I would also like to add two things in my opinion that work against the current system. The first is that the fact that there are no canon chars other than Akatsuki are part of the reason people aren’t committed to testing. While I don’t think you should add new characters I feel like thats a large part of the reason people aren’t committed to testing over and over. And the second thing is it is hard to improve because there are maybe 3 players who are on Deathdusk’s level and none of them 1v1. So you are forced to fight people below that and things that will work on 95% of players won’t work on death so it’s hard to improve even if you know what to do.January 13, 2021 at 8:33 pm #2022
I think what Lucas was saying is in addition to lowering the expectations, meaning making it “easier” to get higher scores, there should be a designated minimum score for each specific character, or group of characters if you could rank them in a tier listJanuary 13, 2021 at 8:34 pm #2023
I’d also like to state how weird it is that a player can even get mostly goods and the rest can be fairs and they’d still fail the test, I don’t think that makes sense or is fair either. I believe something like that should also be passing. This just shows more how “weird” the current system is.
On hard hitters: I don’t even think landing those matters all too much, players are clearly successful with or without them (the element ones like flame cyclone and thundering sphere are what im referring too.)January 13, 2021 at 8:34 pm #2024SenkyParticipant
As someone who’s been playing for around 2 weeks, maybe 3, I completely agree with the fact that most of the characters are next to impossible to get if you’re not on the server for almost all day every day to practice, or just having joined the server recently, and even if you’re decent at combat you still have a low chance of learning all of the mechanic’s ins and outs. While this doesn’t seem totally bad on paper, in execution, most of the players who go for characters come up at the short end of the stick when it comes to grading. The grading seems really strict, from looking at the character test results anyway. I don’t think many of the players currently will get a character if they try for it in this state, and that’s fine, but if you expect people to be absolute gods at the game to get a character then I doubt the spots will be filled.January 13, 2021 at 8:35 pm #2025
To Dee and Lucas: I believe that passing grades should definitely be less strict and not all goods should be the minimum to pass, which doesn’t make too much sense in my opinion.January 13, 2021 at 8:38 pm #2026
but if you expect people to be absolute gods at the game to get a character then I doubt the spots will be filled.
This is a big issue, not everyone is going to be a godlike player or stick around long enough to become this besides a handful of players. You can’t complain about people giving up when the standards are so absurdly difficult.January 13, 2021 at 8:42 pm #2027stornParticipant
get good lolJanuary 13, 2021 at 8:54 pm #2028
As someone who’s never taken a char test my view might have less weight than someone who has and I might be lacking in important insights. I believe the standards for qualifying for a char should still be exceptionally high, but lower than what it is currently. I agree that you should be 100% acquainted with your kit and be consistently proficient. However, having the standards so high that most people can never even aspire to achieving that level is unreasonable and discouraging to say the least. I have 1v1’d with Poor and Evo a number of times and also against Zaw and Dylan. It is blatantly clear how far apart very skilled players and Character level players are. I think the gap between the skilled and the baseline for characters should be narrowed and the grading standards should be less strict. Not totally dumbed down but less extreme. I’m terrible at putting my thoughts into coherent responses so I hope this makes senseJanuary 13, 2021 at 8:59 pm #2029
I guess one way of looking at it is that right now most non noobs are like 2-3/10 skill level. And the expectation far chars is 11/10 skill level. And we’re asking to reduce it to 10/10January 13, 2021 at 9:08 pm #2030DeathduskKeymaster
The expectations are that people can land everything in their kit (even hard hitters) in fights against him. It seems as if he expects nearly perfect accuracy for everything or at least something along those lines. He would like to see fluent gameplay with minimal mistakes at all.
I don’t expect people to land hard-hitting moves 100% of the time, or with near-perfection. I know that it is difficult and that the moves aren’t always efficient to use, and so I point this out each test when I say people should reduce how often they use hard-hitting moves to around 2-3 times per fight at maximum, aiming to hit it once every other fight.
From how I see it, and most likely other players, this system is a bit too strict. If this were a math test, it seems as if you expect a player to get a 99% to get a character.
This is a bad talking point I hear a lot. If the majority of people were hitting their jutsu for the exception of 1-3 jutsu, you’d make a compelling point, but when testing people, I point out a lot of mistakes, many of which are common, and many of which are fixable. No one really asks questions outside the character test.
If you read over character test criticism from other players, you will know this is the case. I only expect people to reach all goods to pass, no excellents. There are a handful of categories, but the most important categories are playstyle, sequence, balance, clan, nature, kekkei, and rank. The other categories like General Jutsu and Ninja Tools are freebies, but sometimes players miss or don’t use things well.
Even the pretty decent players like Zawadi would probably fail the character test, I assume with fairs (which I don’t think should be a failing score either.) I find it weird that a player like him (Zawadi) can be greatly better than most other players on the server, and still not be good enough for a character in the standards of your character system.
I wouldn’t know, haven’t tested Zawadi for a character for more than a year, or regularly in three years. Failing is part of character testing and is not something people should be ashamed of (unless they go in bragging or being weird or something). He is a decent player, but decent enough for a character?. . . who knows? When he was Haruno with Lava a while ago, I think he tested a few times and failed, but that was the old system where everything was verbal. I’d assume he’d do a little better now, given he had the time to test.
Every character is as difficult as the person makes, how difficult they find the kit to be, in application to my criteria and I don’t set “easy, normal, hard, expert” difficulties for any character. Good is the standard to reach, what I would consider the average qualities of a character should be. It should not be looked at as 99%, or 4/5 because it isn’t a number.
I don’t see it as “Everyone’s bad”, like you may, I see it more like people are getting good and trying (or at least decent) and the standards are way too high or just bad.
Everyone isn’t bad, that’s mostly a joke, but players don’t even give me the time of day to do decent. I can’t help it when the people testing aren’t doing anything in the combat test, getting 20 hearted off the bat, or just crutching and being generally inept at PVP.
The majority of people character testing do not have the game skills to get even bads or fairs, and that’s not an awful thing, but that doesn’t mean the bar should be lowered. There aren’t many good players in many games and we are a smaller community compared to huge fighting games. I can’t make it easier for players who DO NOT KNOW HOW TO USE the majority of their kit. Very few, almost no players are reaching all fairs and just failing, or a mix of all fairs and goods
What I can do is outline where people should be at progression wise to meet poor, bad, fair, good, excellent so that it seems less aggressive or scary to get into.January 13, 2021 at 9:24 pm #2031
I only expect people to reach all goods to pass, no excellents. There are a handful of categories, but the most important categories are playstyle, sequence, balance, clan, nature, kekkei, and rank. The other categories like General Jutsu and Ninja Tools are freebies, but sometimes players miss or don’t use things well.
I think the expectation of getting all goods isn’t a super bad idea, however I dislike that someone can get mostly all goods, then fairs in 2 categories and it’s a fail. This is apart of the unnecessary strictness that a lot of people disagree with and should possible be re-evaluated (some people have commented in this thread about it.) I was looking at character tests a bit ago when I had a brief interest in becoming a character and I noticed that a player could get fairs and goods and still fails. I found that disappointing as with those grades they are already better than a LOT of people already going for characters. If you want to compare people to others who apply for characters, most people get bads and poors anyways, why can’t those who made it as far a to get fairs and goods pass?
He is a decent player, but decent enough for a character?.
I along with other players beg the question of why someone like him wouldn’t be able to get a character when they’re better than like 90% of the server. You saying that only helps with my point about the system being a bit weird. A successful player being known as one of the best, yet not good enough for a player seems a bit odd. The meaning of good has a lot of meanings. Good isn’t good enough is how it seems to be in this case.
What I can do is outline where people should be at progression wise to meet poor, bad, fair, good, excellent so that it seems less aggressive or scary to get into.
This is a great start and can be really helpful to the grading, I do think it isn’t enough to make the system more enjoyable to the player base.
I can’t help it when the people testing aren’t doing anything in the combat test, getting 20 hearted off the bat, or just crutching and being generally inept at PVP.
Of course these type of people who get all poors and make you have a concussion from facepalming so hard won’t get anywhere. Everyone can agree on that. What we want is for people actually getting somewhere to achieve something for all their work. Some people will never be at the level of current characters. The system in my opinion isn’t fun because of so many people trying and failing miserably being at lvl 1 and you would need to be at lvl 1000 to get anything.January 13, 2021 at 9:35 pm #2032DeathduskKeymaster
I think the expectation of getting all goods isn’t a super bad idea, however I dislike that someone can get mostly all goods, then fairs in 2 categories and it’s a fail.
Good is the expected bar someone should reach, and what I consider what the “average” character should be. Fair and below are used to tell someone that they need development, and I suppose the qualities you need and what is considered “average” should be better outlined in the criteria.
People are going to fail with fair, but they aren’t going to fail with fair because they missed ninja tools or didn’t use any, or some other arbitrary category like shop jutsu. Having goods in freebie categories like ranj jutsu, ninja tools and general jutsu should be expected, but some players don’t even reach that far.
I still haven’t really found an example where players are reaching all goods and have fairs in 2 categories and failed. Evo has mostly fairs, and a bit of bads in his second-to-last test, heavily outnumbering the amount of goods he had. His next test, he passed with all goods.
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